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Harris: SB 840 saves local governments millions PDF Print E-mail
Written by Wanda Harris   
Wednesday, 23 July 2008

Over the past year, Lake County Democrats, along with health care providers and unions, senior advocate groups and numerous concerned citizens have been working to inform the public of the only solution to America's health care delivery crisis, enactment of a single payer plan, or a Medicare for All system.


At the state level groups have worked to support SB 840, California's Universal Health Care Act, introduced by Sen. Sheila Kuehl, and co-authored by the legislators who represent or have represented Lake County in Sacramento: Assembly woman Patty Berg, former state Sen. Wes Chesbro and current state Sen. Patricia Wiggins.


SB 840 is California's plan to establish a functional, modern, universal health care system for the 21st century.


This bill covers every California resident with comprehensive, affordable health benefits and contains the growth in health care spending while improving quality. It guarantees every patient the total choice of their doctors and hospitals.


California's own budget crisis is greatly affected by the rising health care costs. The state budget buys health care directly through public programs and as employers. The bill is supported by the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee, who are the principle sponsor of the bill, as well as the California Physicians Alliance.


Also in support, California School Employees Association, League of Women Voters, Health Care for All-California, California Labor Federation, California Church IMPACT, and leading seniors' organizations including the California Congress of Seniors and California Association of Retired Americans.


This bill was passed by both houses of the legislature in Sacramento in 2006 and was vetoed by the governor.


As of this writing, SB 840 has been placed on suspend by the Assembly appropriations committee. It is lodged there, pending resolution of the state's budget crisis.


In early August, the committee will vote on whether or not to send the bill to the floor, where it will surely pass again, and then it will be forwarded to the governor's desk for his signature.


In July of 2007, the Lake County Board of Supervisors did a cost comparison detailing how much Lake County taxpayers would save if the SB 840 single payer health care system was enacted in California.


The Board's figures revealed that Lake County could save at least $1.5 million dollars in health care costs under SB 840 every year.


That's $1.5 million of tax revenue that could be spent on other county services or returned to the taxpayers. (See http://lakeconews.com/content/view/1267/764/.)


Answering a written request from Lake County single-payer health care advocates, that was sent to cities and school boards, in the summer of 2007, the Konocti Unified School District did the calculations and showed a $3 million annual savings in their budget. The school board and union representatives notified the governor of their position supporting SB 840.


In June of this year, Clearlake City Council member Joyce Overton, in response to the 2007 letter, requested that the city of Clearlake's finance director, Michael Vivrette, perform the same cost analysis. The results are that the city could save $404,000 if SB 840 was enacted.


Around the state of California, these studies are being requested of local jurisdictions, by citizens who are interested in a cost-effective and fair implementation of health care delivery.


For example, the Sonoma County Office of Education calculated a savings of $1.35 million, the city of Rohnert Park calculated a cost savings of $1.4 million, the county of Sonoma calculated a cost savings of $20 million, the City of Newport Beach calculated a cost savings of $6 million. The Grey Panthers of California have made similar calculations for other jurisdictions. Of the only 15 government entities in California that have been calculated, the savings to taxpayers range from $230 to $435 million.


The Lewin Group, an independent, nationally respected health care research organization, analyzed SB 840 and California's current broken health care system. They reported that around $20 billion in premiums paid to the health insurance industry in California each year never reaches health care providers. It disappears into competing advertising and other overhead expenses, and multimillion dollar bonuses to health care industry CEOs.


The Lewin Report says that California could save around $8 billion in health care costs in the first year after SB 840's enactment. (Reference site: www.healthcareforall.org.)


Here’s how to calculate savings in four simple steps:


  • Step One: Multiply $7,000 (the exemption per employee) by the number of insured employees. The result is the amount of the total payroll that is exempt from SB 840 taxes.

  • Step Two: Subtract the result in step one from the total annual payroll of those same employees. The result is the SB 840 taxable payroll.

  • Step Three: Multiply the result in step two by 0.0817 (the SB 840 factor of 8.17 percent, as shown in the Lake County memo). The result is the new annual health care cost under SB 840.

  • Step Four: Subtract the result in step three from the current annual health care cost (include retirees' cost). The result is the potential annual cost reduction.


Taxpayers would be well advised to contact their local school boards, water boards, and city and county governments and ask those jurisdictions to calculate the savings under a single-payer health care plan.


SB 840 provides truly universal health care – affordable, patient-centered health care – with doctors in charge, not insurance companies.


It's tested, it's possible, a majority of Californians are in support and it's time.


Wanda Harris is chair of the Lake County Democratic Central Committee. She lives in Hidden Valley Lake.


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lenny - then why... Registered | 07-25-2008 01:48:54
is our Governator vetoing this bill?

and thank you...

wonderful article...

My Blue Cross costs $440/mth with a $5000 annual deductable!! Small company.

Something needs to happen!!
futhark - A 9/11 Every 9 Weeks IP:66.81.73.xxx | 07-25-2008 09:39:34
In Michael Moore's documentary Sicko, he states that 18000 Americans die every year due to lack of adequate medical insurance. That's 346 lives lost per week, or 3114 lives lost every nine weeks. The casualty figures for 9/11 are estimated at 2998. So, roughly, in order to keep our present convoluted and wasteful medical insurance system, we sacrifice as many American lives as were lost in 9/11 four times a year.

I don't have the figures in hand for the number of families that go broke due to medical bills, but I have heard it is the leading cause of personal and family bankruptcy in this nation.

Why we go chasing around on the other side of the planet after "terrorists", spending hundreds of billions of dollars doing so, when the very real terrors of illness, death, and financial ruin are right here on our doorstep and within our ability to address fairly and compassionately, I can hardly imagine.

Some very rich and influential folks must be making a bundle off the present medical insurance setup, expensive, unfair, and wasteful as it is.

Let's challenge every political candidate with the question of whether or not he or she supports single-payer universal medical insurance and hold them all accountable if they do not work hard to pass this needed reform as a top priority.
jjensen - Arnold's position Super Administrator | 07-25-2008 10:41:57
Is that it will actually cost more and he also throws in some rhetoric for good measure. But the cost increase would appear to be an unsupported assertion. My question is how is it that after subtracting the profit, salaries, bonuses, advertising and redundancy of multiple HMO's, it costs more? The argument defies logic so it winds up as sound bites designed to scare us.

"Socialized medicine is not the solution to our state’s health care problems. This bill would require an extraordinary redirection of public and private funding by creating a vast new bureaucracy to take over health insurance and medical care for Californians – a serious and expensive mistake. Such a program would cost the state billions and lead to significant new taxes on individuals and businesses, without solving the critical issue of affordability. I won’t jeopardize the economy of our state for such a purpose." (AS-California Governor) http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/3751/
yellowwing Registered | 07-25-2008 10:47:54
1. We go chasing terrorists elsewhere BEFORE they get to our shores.

2. Talk to the Canadians. You want lousy health care, go with a single payer system.

Yes something needs to be done - but this is not the way to do it.

What needs to happen is that this state (and country) needs to STOP GIVING EVERYTHING AWAY to people who are not LEGAL residents of this great nation.

If employers choose to employ people who are not legal residents, then they should be paying the medical costs for those employees. This would leave more funds available for those who actually have a legal right to be here.

This country just slated $48 BILLION dollars to AIDS research OVERSEAS. How much of that could be used by legal residents of this country???? (And yes I believe we need more research curing AIDS.)

I pay and pay and pay. SB 840 will not change how much I pay - it will offer MORE to people who don't pay.
John - BS alert Registered | 07-25-2008 11:40:55
Repeating untruths does not lend them credence.

1. If I recall correctly, 9/11 happened on our shores BEFORE we were lied into chasing terrorists in Iraq, a country where none existed prior to our intervention. And where is Bin Laden?

"If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem." — George W. Bush, Jan. 2001.


2. Canadian life expectancy is longer and infant mortality is lower, those are pretty good measures of the efficacy of health care. < CIA factbook

Blaming immigrants is disingenuous, I notice you don't take WalMart to task for paying low wages and telling it's employees how to get the rest of us to subsidize the Walton family.

Or how about KBR, a once US firm that now resides in Dubai and grows fatter on no-bid contracts billed to US taxpayers.

Once we stop subsidizing the rich, we'll start to see improvement. Or hadn't you noticed the shrinking middle class?

$48 billion to research AIDs is but four months in Iraq - minus all the killing.

If you stick to the facts and stay away from the rhetoric, you'll get pummeled less often.
Donna Christopher - Great article Wanda Author | 07-25-2008 12:09:56
Just got done reading an article about lack of empathy being the definition of evil, this was about the Nuremberg trials and the article follows thru to todays crop of chuckleheads in power. As someone without insurance Canada's system looks pretty good to me. You lucked out Lenny, I tried to keep my health insurance but the premium was $677.77 per month with a $4,500 out of pocket deductable before they kicked in. My mortgage payment was about $250 a month less than my medical premium. Yes, I'd rather wait in line for treatment than have my current choice - none. Not looking for any freebies, just some finacially sane type of care to buy into. This plan makes fiscal sense - expect a full out assault by the compassionate conservatives. They are easy to spot, they're the ones with medicare or VA benefits but whine how the government shouldn't be involved in health care.
purplegirl - Actually IP:208.106.99.xxx | 07-25-2008 12:55:50
Actually, yellowwing does have some good points.

Unlike many who speak here, I happen to be close friends with some Canadians and one in particular who has been waiting over five years for hip surgery because of the "system" which takes worst cases first and has a long list of worst cases. Sure, every system has its flaws but after talking to some real Canadians firsthand, I believe, the Canadian system is not the grand end all be all model that many are lead to believe it is.

The grass always seems greener on the other side but do we ever visit the other side to actually see for ourselves?

Obviously, the illegal immigrants in our country have done just that and seen that our healthcare system works just fine for them. Maybe, just maybe, that is why it isn't working for us. Has anyone besides yellowwing actually looked closer at the amount of our budget that goes towards the support of undocumented illegal immigrants in this country (through healthcare and other things)? According to USA Today, "In California, a 2004 study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform put the state's annual cost at $1.4 billion." That was in 2004, four years ago. I can't even imagine what it is today. And you don't think that puts a burden on our state budget, our hospitals, our clinics, our healthcare in general? Think again.

Now, I know, some of you reading this are going to scream "racist" at me but nothing could be further from the truth. In actuality, I fully support legal immigration from citizens worldwide. In fact, I have a friend who is attempting to obtain a legal visa right now to do work (and bring work) to the U.S. legally and I support his efforts. I am just of the strong belief that people need to learn a bit of English and civics and take an oath towards our country before receiving the benefits of being a citizen of our country. Othwerwise, when we treat illegal immigrants like lawful citizens and allow them the benefits of citizens of the U.s., we are doing an injustice to those people who are legal and lawful citizens (no matter where they came from) and who deserve the benefits of being a U.S. citizen.
taxismom - Federation for American Immigr Registered | 07-25-2008 13:42:37
Southern Poverty Law Center calls b.s on this tricked up front group

Quote:
New SPLC Report: Nation's Most Prominent Anti-Immigration Group has History of Hate, Extremism

Editor's Note: After issuing this report in December 2007, the Southern Poverty Law Center added the Federation for American Immigration Reform to its list of hate groups.

The country's leading anti-immigration organization — whose leaders have testified repeatedly before Congress and are frequently quoted in the media — has ties to known racists and a long track record of bigotry, according to a new report released today by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).

The group, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR):

* is the creation of a man who operates a racist publishing company and has compared immigrants to "bacteria;"
* has employed members of white supremacist groups in key positions;
* has promoted racist conspiracy theories; and
* has accepted more than $1 million from the Pioneer Fund, a racist foundation devoted to eugenics and to proving a connection between race and IQ.

FAIR and its ties to white supremacy are examined in the latest issue of the SPLC's quarterly Intelligence Report.

The SPLC today added FAIR to its list of hate groups operating in the United States.

"FAIR's position on immigration is rooted more in its anti-Latino and anti-Catholic beliefs than in policy concerns," said Mark Potok, the director of the SPLC's project that monitors hate group activity. "Remarkably, it has still managed to infiltrate the mainstream and shape the immigration debate in this country."

FAIR helped defeat federal immigration reform earlier this year and has played a key role in fueling the fierce, anti-immigrant backlash in the United States. It was founded in 1979 by John Tanton, a man who has compared immigrants to bacteria and warned that high birthrates will allow Latinos to take over America. Still a member of FAIR's board, Tanton also operates The Social Contract Press, listed as a hate group for many years by the SPLC because of its anti-Latino and white supremacist writings.

"The sad fact is that attempts to reform our immigration system are being sabotaged by organizations fueled by hate," Henry Fernandez, a senior fellow and expert on immigration at the Center for American Progress, told the Intelligence Report.

The SPLC has documented a 40 percent increase in the number of hate groups since 2000, an increase that SPLC analysts attribute to the anti-immigrant fervor that is sweeping the country. The FBI recently released statistics showing a 35 percent rise in hate crimes against Latinos since 2003. A sampling of some of the most egregious acts of violence against Latinos over the past three years is included in the new issue of the SPLC's Intelligence Report.

http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=295

quit scapegoating - more from a 2006 Rand Corporation study
Quote:
[b]RAND STUDY SHOWS RELATIVELY LITTLE PUBLIC MONEY SPENT
PROVIDING HEALTH CARE TO UNDOCUMENTED [/b]IMMIGRANTS

Just a small fraction of America's health care spending is used to provide publicly supported care to the nation's undocumented immigrants, according to a RAND Corporation study issued today.

Overall, immigrants to the United States use relatively few health services, primarily because they are generally healthier than their American-born counterparts, according to the study by the nonprofit research organization.

The report – which appears in the November edition of the journal Health Affairs – estimates that in the United States about $1.1 billion in federal, state and local government funds are spent annually on health care for undocumented immigrants aged 18 to 64. That amounts to an average of $11 in taxes for each U.S. household.

In contrast, a total of $88 billion in government funds were spent on health care for all non-elderly adults in 2000.

“Our findings show a relatively small amount of tax money is spent on health services provided to undocumented immigrants,” said James P. Smith, the RAND chair in Labor Market and Demographic Studies and an author of the report. “Costs will be much higher for educating the children of undocumented immigrants, so that's where debate should center, not on these relatively small health care costs.”

The other authors of the new report are: Dana Goldman, chair and director of health economics at RAND; and Neeraj Sood, an associate economist at RAND.

Smith also was an author of the often-cited National Academy of Science publication on immigration titled “The New Americans.”

The estimates of public spending on medical care for undocumented immigrants are included in a RAND study that examined the patterns of health care use by the foreign-born and those born in the United States. The study provides the most detailed analysis to date of immigrants and their use of health services.

Researchers developed their estimates by analyzing information collected by the Los Angeles Family Neighborhood Study (LAFANS), which interviewed nearly 2,400 English- and Spanish-speaking adults throughout Los Angeles County during 2000 and 2001. Los Angeles has the largest immigrant community in the United States.

Participants in the LAFANS study were asked about their health status, whether they had health insurance, and the type and amount of health care used. The study is unique because it also asks participants about their immigration status – information not collected by other surveys.

Researchers found that non-elderly, adult immigrants – those who are legal and those who are undocumented – made fewer visits to doctors and hospitals than native-born non-elderly adults. Although the foreign-born make up 45 percent of the Los Angeles County's population, they accounted for just 33 percent of the region's health spending in 2000, according to the study.

A large number of foreign-born residents of Los Angeles County had almost no contact with the formal health care system, researchers found. One-quarter of the foreign-born had never had a medical check-up and one in nine had never visited a doctor – twice the rate seen among the native-born. Only 58 percent of undocumented immigrants had visited a doctor in the past year and only 11 percent had been hospitalized in the past two years.

Among undocumented men, just 2 percent had any hospitalizations in the prior year. Half had not seen a doctor in the prior year.

One of every five undocumented women had never received a checkup – four times the rate seen among native-born women – and 7 percent had never seen a physician, compared with 1 percent of native-born women.

“The lower use of medical services by immigrants is driven in part by their lower rates of insurance,” Goldman said. “But the largest factor appears to be due to their being generally healthier than the native-born population.”

Foreign-born people in the LAFANS survey reported fewer health problems, an advantage that was especially pronounced among the undocumented. For example, while 38 percent of the native-born reported having a chronic health condition, only 27 percent of the foreign-born and 19 percent of the undocumented did so.

Researchers say some of the differences may be explained by the younger age of immigrants and a lower rate of diagnosis caused by their limited access to doctors and other health services. But even when those factors are considered, immigrants appear healthier than the native born.

“This suggests that the act of immigrating to the United States favors those who are generally healthier and may discourage those who have chronic health problems,” said study co-author Sood.

Researchers computed estimates of health costs by immigration status by combining information about an individual's use of health services with studies that estimate the cost of individual health services.

The study found that per capita health care spending by foreign-born men in Los Angeles County in 2000 was $1,086 less than by native-born men ($1,540 compared with $2,626), with most of the difference due to lower spending by private and public insurers for the foreign-born. Similar trends were seen among women.

Among the foreign-born, per-person health costs were highest among immigrant citizens. Per- person medical spending for undocumented men and women was 39 percent and 54 percent of the spending of their native-born counterparts.

The authors estimate that total medical costs for all Los Angeles County residents ages 18 to 64 was $13.9 billion in 2000, with private insurers paying a bit more than half the costs and public insurers a little more than one-fourth the costs. The remainder was paid for out of pocket.

Researchers estimate that total medical spending on undocumented immigrants in Los Angeles County was $887 million in 2000 – 6 percent of total costs, although undocumented immigrants comprise 12 percent of the region's residents.

Most of the costs for undocumented immigrants' health care were covered by private insurance or out-of-pocket payments, but an estimate $204 million was for publicly supported services. The study found that native-born residents were more likely to use publicly funded services than foreign-born residents.

In the new RAND study, national estimates of health care costs for the foreign-born were obtained by applying the experiences from Los Angeles County across the nation, where the foreign-born are 13.1 percent of the population and undocumen...
cantdrive55 - Don't Go Canadian Registered | 07-25-2008 13:11:51
Go English, 8% is about right. For that amount of money every person can be treated, citizen, alien, tourist, with no additional out of pocket costs. But everyone must pay 8% on unlimited income, the same way SSI/Medicare is deducted now.The only stumbling block is making all employers convert the current health benefit into payrol dollars. Then it's a winner!
Of course it's also socialized medicine!
Our health care costs are so high not because of the insurance companies, but because the hospitals and doctors charge up to 40% more than any other industrialized nation, check it out. The English system is the best if done properly.
taxismom - Medicare's 43rd Birthday Registered | 07-25-2008 14:03:22
Special invitation to the health care defeatists --- find the Medicare birthday party nearest to them, go, and meet the activists who are going to bring us universal health care.

Quote:
Medicare’s 43rd Birthday is July 30th - Medicare is known as one of the most successful social programs in the United States. Its universal coverage for those 65 and older creates the ability to redistribute benefits to those who are neediest, it pools risk in order to share the burdens of health care among the healthy and the sick, and through Medicare, the government protects the rights of all beneficiaries to essential health care without putting profit interests first. Medicare beneficiaries are overwhelmingly satisfied with their coverage, and now it is time to give improve and expand this wonderful program to everyone in the country! Support HR 676, Expanded and Improved Medicare for All!
We need you to help us celebrate! Here is what you can do:


http://www.healthcare-now.org/july30.html
boondoggle - single payer not socialized me Registered | 07-25-2008 14:16:14
socialized medicine is when the doctors work for the government. single payer is when the gov. manages the payments as is done with medicare. I pay $10000. a year for insurance and have 20 percent co insurance. I have to pay it since if I get sick the hospital bills would bankrupt me. Why does a hospital charge over $16,000. for the use of their facilities for a one hour operation? The insurance company only pays them about $6000. of that since the hospital has a deal with them. If an uninsured person goes to the hospital they will have to pay the $16000.Out patient surgery centers are much cheaper but we have few of them available in this area.The hospitals could build these centers and thus charge less for using them.
DDean - Watch out for whats coming Registered | 07-25-2008 22:19:14
All this talk of Canadians and Mexicans.Have you heard of the North American union?Why does our government allow a foreign invasion to continue?I too am sick and tired of our government just giving it away.Legals are fine if not stay the hell away.All the termoil not just the medical crisis,is part of the plan to bring down the American middle class.Mad as hell, your darn wright.Meanwhile all the guys at the grove just frolic through the redwoods.Todays Press Democrat Tells of Richard Nixon secret tapes,Saying that the Bohemian Club"is the most faggy goddam thing you could ever emagine" Nixon and George W were there the year befor each man became president.No wonder our state of affairs are so messed up.Stock up because the stuff is about to hit the fan.
James Registered | 07-26-2008 09:25:47
I can't see how your going to have this or any other problem get solved with the likes of so many of you so willing to tolerate not only at the local level but more so on the national scene. So you take more offence at what I say than what is going on around you. I state this loud and clear,if you endure those that lie and cover up the lies. You are the problem,stop looking at someone to save us. This system is broke with the arrogance of our foolishness. You are the host for their ideas. I don't know all the answers but you can't have a system based on dishonesty and have things go well.
lenny - that's nice... Registered | 07-26-2008 10:15:35
now how do we effect change? Back to my orginal question.

is our Governator vetoing this bill?

the answer is yes he is!

so now what?
James - lenny Registered | 07-26-2008 18:10:00
I don't know what I would do other than find honest people and go back to the constitution. There is no way you can have good government with dtshonest people. Tell me what is working? show me a program that fuctions with any degree of efficiency. I have hope but its waning fast. Hear, your tolerance is the problem. The system is a reflection of us.
DDean - Prayer never hurts IP:69.236.85.xxx | 07-26-2008 18:36:40
After that we can effect change by hopeing the impeachment hearings go through.Voting out every single incumbant in office.Stop being Democrats and Republicans,two heads of the same monster.Spread the word,not just on this forum.Tell the grocery clerk ,the bank teller,the farmer,the road worker everyone you come in contact with.Its not easy, many just dont want to hear it.I had business cards with,(google-NWO and N.American union)IF i help a few figure it out,prephaps they can help a few more.A few churches in the area are telling members to stock up on a years worth of food.Meds also.I would include ammo and propane.THis stuff keeps,what would it hurt.God bless us,and get the ball rolling.
James - DDean Registered | 07-27-2008 10:01:09
How true, to pray, It might help. Lifes training has shown to be prepared is "A" on your list. I can't save this system and most go on their way as if in LaLaLand. We just knew Arnold would save us and you eye Obama or McCain to light the way. Theres no way the sane and honest can work with a dysfunctional process. They will eather move on or become corrupt. Hay Locke tell me its not so, you took the oath and your actions don't stick in your craw. For you that don't understand some in this local government made it personel and I chose not to take it.Later
cantdrive55 - Fair Cost & Charges Registered | 07-27-2008 11:17:58
If the gov't doesn't really take over and "socialize" the program then the 8% figure won't work, it'll just keep rising like insurnace rates do now. The control is in the oversight. BUT, it will never pass, the nurses union will never let it go through, their wages would be capped or reduced just like the doctors and hospitals to make it work. But again, after everyone paid the 8%, anyone could get care anywhere for anything anytime in the U.S.
Even James,but the'yd lie to him and tell him they really didn't treat him!
taxismom - fact check here Registered | 07-28-2008 01:09:07
The California Nurses Association and the National Nurses Organizing Committee have been at the forefront of this fight, for several years.
They have led the way in bringing single payer, not insurance reform - but single payer universal health care to the table - they want to care for their patients, not push paper for the corporate bureacracy.
http://www.calnurses.org/

If you cant get that single salient key fact correct - it follows that the rest of your points are reduced to being baseless and untrue.
DDean - Check this out Registered | 07-27-2008 11:46:43
Foodie freak article.Sounds good to me.This will help every one of you.
James - cantdrive55 Registered | 07-27-2008 17:39:00
So you open your mouth and allow it to act as your annus. This delight you have to prove me incompetent as if to speak with authority is no more than crap for brains. Because I protest speak out you would choose that something is wrong with me. It could not be the other way around? But please continue your bloviating it allows me to tell you that you have the IQ of a simian.
fastleft Registered | 07-28-2008 18:22:31
It's not that you speak out. It's that you speak out all the time, signs on your truck, signs on your house, it never ends, What the hell did some county people do to you to make you spend the rest of your day's here speaking out ( all day all night) Do you think of anything but R. Odert and R. Brown ect. I know these men and yes they are not prefect, but they are not evil like you make them out to be
cantdrive55 - Single Payer Registered | 07-28-2008 10:03:49
If it ever becomes a reality, corporate america will not be paying for the health benefits, when the deep pockets are out of the picture the dem's and nurse's unions pockets are picked and they will not accept that.
The facts support the 8% program, the english have the best plan, but everyone in health care in the U.S. would have to take a pay-cut or at least acknowledge that over time the free market would balance the paying field on a global basis.
James, each time your bellow, you prove my point!
James - cantdrive55 Registered | 07-28-2008 16:08:18
I asked you some time ago to check and see when the grievance form was implemented and who was the one to lead the charge?. I asked why Mary Jene Fagalde and Bod gordon are no longer with this government? The ones that started the lies and the cover up. I asked you to check and see if a apology was issured to me from the board of supervisors? I asked if the grand jury informed the public the former supervisor Lewis miss use of government phone? I also asked why would you belive me to be wrong? I only exercise those rights under the constitution and as I say things about persons in this government there is something wrong with me. Did you do any of the above? You could not be wrong with your assessment? Be honest and check your mind might change.
lenny - reality check to Registered | 07-28-2008 17:13:22
cantdrive55

Last year two million Americans – 75% of whom had health insurance – were forced to declare personal bankruptcy because of their medical bills.


Something needs to happen and happen quick!!
cantdrive55 - lenny I'm with you IP:12.218.146.xxx | 07-28-2008 21:22:26
8% across the board from every income earning person gets everyone health care, no hidden costs. The gov't oversees it as Medicare as usual setting the rates, paying the fees. Everyone who happens to be within our borders is covered. If the health care providers don't like it then they have to go to another country that has lost control.
James, in order;
I did,
I know,
they resigned,
no one needed to apologize for anything,
the Grand Jury doesn't release names because it is the law,
because you never include any factual information,
yes we all have those rights,
my assessment is 100% accurate,
I am completely honest and these are the facts,
anyone can check my facts they are public information,
and I don't mind the exercise,
and change, yes, Universal health care would change everything for the better!
James - cantdrive55 cant see truth Registered | 07-29-2008 03:10:14
How easy you brush off those points I asked. So you checked and what did you find about the grievance form? When was it implemented? The two that started all this mess resigned,how convenience and as such being a personel matter can't talk about it. Did I or did I not get a letter from the board of supervisors stating that my rights were violated? So you state that no one needed to apologize for anything! Then why did they? The point with lewis and the grand jury is and was their not the watchdogs as clamed but lapdogs and a person vioaled a trust and no one held him accountable. You have tryed to miss lead with your one or two word answers implying my words are not true. You are reprehensible and there must be a reason for your passion to show me wrong. To all the readers of this web I have told the truth.
cantdrive55 - Simplicity at its best Registered | 07-29-2008 09:24:08
James, at your request, the county implemented a grievance form and procedure, and sent you a very nice letter thanking you for bringing it to their attention, No apology necessary, just thanks. The Grand Jury did their job, brought malfeasance to light, if the DA wanted to prosecute it's up to him. James, your ego is leading you down an indefensable path where laws and truths are against you. Thank you for the grievance form, use it, let us know how it turns out.
James - cant drive55 will see. Registered | 07-29-2008 10:40:52
would you like to know how long it took to get a grievance form? Six years. You ether work for this government or have someone that is affillated. You know how to spin the truth. The point from the start was that my rights are not subjected to rules,regulation or procedures used by those that have power. Those rights are insured by the Constitution and the oath that was took hold them responsible. Hear this I do have a letter from the board and it states that my rights were violated and time will tell who has the truth on their side. I am using the grievace process but as said before hard to find justice with the lack of a legal controling authority to step forward. I have made charges and you as them find it hard to open their eyes and look at it.But it will come out one way or the other,can't hide the truth forever. Again thank you its always nice to call them liars.Your just one of the reasons we end up with all their dribble.
cantdrive55 - Speaking of Dribble Registered | 07-30-2008 10:41:04
James you say you made charges, the only hard thing to look at are those charges, why do you keep them a secret. I am not alone in asking for you to reveal them to the public for consideration. Others in this forum have also asked to see them. You are the only one hiding anything. If again you refuse to let your grievance known to the public at large you are turning your back on any support that may be offered. Why do you not want to rally support for your grievance?
James - cantdrive55 Registered | 07-30-2008 18:24:08
Well now you don't say a thing about the letter from the board of supercisors? Have we got by that? Hear this, this story has been told ,who they were and what they did.In a nut shell I found county employees that lied and covered up the lies and within that process to report that fact others became involved with their lies. I have made charges said I would swear to the same and if they find I lied then charge me with perjury. Support? I see what you will tolerate. Supervisor that miss use our phone to call his girlfriend . When charged by a citizen made that citizen go through the grand jury process and then told only to pay back the money and after a tear told no one who he was.That person not only stole from us but used the system so no one would know. What I'm asking this local government todo is show us their skid marks in their shorts and they would rather not. I understand they let it go to long. The sheriff said he was comming. We will see.
cantdrive55 - Patience Registered | 07-30-2008 22:44:33
James you must have an abundance, If you complained about an employee(s) six years ago and the county hasn't made a decision on that complaint then not only are you more patient than the Pope but the county is totally inept and ineffective. As for the other, what cover-up, the BOS discussed the issue in open session, named names and the dollars spent to be reimbursed, the true fault was the initial county policy regarding use of issued cell phones.
Whats the sheriff doing, coming to give you a ride somewhere?
James - 55 is not all you can't do Registered | 07-31-2008 09:20:35
I asked you before.Did I get a letter? The point with Lewis and the phone was he did't stand up an state it was a oversight at the time it came to their attention and this board allowed the grand jury to be used for politics. As stated if he said it was a mistake and he would pay it back before but they let it go to the grand jury knowing his name would not come out. Can I ask do you injoy being a smart ass or is it just your nature? To explain the passion I feel would be lost on you but if you have some joy being sarcastic go at it.No the sheriff is setting up a met and said he was going to look in to this matter. Come on tell me I didn't get the letter or that the board didn't send the Lewis complaint to the grand jury. So we don't talk about the greivance forms eather.You had me wrong on that one also. You never said if you worked for this government or have a alliance of some sort?
cantdrive55 - Sorry James Registered | 08-01-2008 08:38:10
No vested interests, just an itch for a blowhard whose self-centered ego is as closed as the sign he hangs on his gate.
James Registered | 08-01-2008 12:30:50
So smart mouth you just get off being a ass. You have the advantage you know me and I'm unaware of you. You have been shown at ever turn I'm right and I said the truth. So if I have not lied and you have been shown that all you words were just air come on tell us the problem. Yes I have a gate its to keep out people I don't care to see . Like government people taking pictures of my neighbors. Lets see if we can get to your problem. That space between your ears you know were you eyes are located try to put this in there. I have told the truth and that fact will come out and all your lip flaping will not change that, you lips same area as between the ears. So we can keep being insulting to each other but to what end? I have no problem with your view that I'm wrong about how I see things my problem is you chose to make it personal. But as I've said before thank you for the chance to call them liars again,Brown Lewis,Smith,Robey and Fairringtron.Could I ask who is your boy? I have stood in the open told all who I am. I have not be anonymous, didnot hide in the dark and yell insurts at them. I have looked them in the eyes and said they were liars. Lets keep your verbiage coming you dim wit.
fastleft - Geez Registered | 08-01-2008 13:08:14
I am going to ask these people to stand in front of the court house with bull horns and tell Johny public how bad they have been to James, would that shut you up? After all they did kill your dog or something like that!
James - faceleft Registered | 08-01-2008 19:04:52
So another smart ass comes out from under their rock. I find that my rights are important and its the likes of you that are the carriers of their ideas, that to lie or cover up the lies the oath has no meaning at all. Go and be a low life some place else. but thanks so I can reply and call them liars.Robie Brown,Smith,lewis and Farrington. so I'm a bother because I ask for my rights.
cantdrive55 - You are missing the point Registered | 08-02-2008 10:59:00
James, its not your elegant diatribe that offends, its the total lack of factual information. You are the epitome of the third grader in the school playground calling everyone a liar and upset when no one listens.
See ya on another blog, trying to educate you is tiring.
James - To all Registered | 08-03-2008 09:06:43
IT will always be something with you and your like. The V.A has solved the problem, I'm on the right medication now an see clearly. I never got a letter from the board of supervisors, stating my rights were violated. The contractor never lost his license that did the work on my home and to my serprise Bob Gordan and Mary Jane Fagalde are with this government as I speak. All thoses wonderful people never lied or covered the lies up.Just me being delusional but by God no more I'm on the right track now. I need to apologize also that oath they take has meaning and I received my hearing and I'm on my way to jail for perjury and one last thing Lewis did stand up said the phone calls to his girlfriend was a over sight and would like to repay, hugs and all were so kissable. To all of you that have been perturb with my antic please forgive this old Marine that time has left behind.
cantdrive55 - Never Never Never Registered | 08-04-2008 09:53:45
And you Never stated what your complaint was about. This is like unsolved mysterys. Me and my "like", being everyone else in the county, only want to know what is/was your complaint that started six years ago. There has to be more to it than politicians lying....the only thing left behind are the facts of the case!
James Registered | 08-04-2008 12:01:15
Lets see if this might work. 1, The first person to inspect my house did a bad job. 2, The next man tells me he did a bad inspection. 3, I go back to the county were the first person is employed a department that is run by Mary jane Fagaldes. 2, I see a Bob Gordon and he starts to cover up the errors of the first man, in other words he starts to lie. 4, This goes on for sometime and I ask to see the boss. 5, The boss shows up I make my concers know,Fagalde takes the side of Gordon that is protecting the first man, If you remember the person that did the inspection on my home.6,7,8,9,11,12,13,and so it went from person to person from department to department. Then I asked for a complaint form and to my shock there is none.So you can complain but no one has to take action or that if action is taken it s to cover up the actions to prolong.Lying to you is not enough and that you have such a large amount of people willing to let it go on. the case will end when this government has the sheriff look into this matter. You prove my point it will always be something with you. We don't talk about all the facts to my "to all" above. If I have a letter that states my rights were violated that in itself would not set your bells off? Good by.
fastleft - Blaa Blaaa Bllaaa Registered | 08-04-2008 15:57:37
Yes the constant name calling, signs, and yes you and your big mouth have hurt that nameless contractor, What started this ten year rant anyway James? It does not seem to matter what the story is about, It always seems to end with what ever the hell happened to poor little James, This guy's a lier, thats guy won't say he'e sorry to me, BOO WHOOO!!
cantdrive55 - Thank You James Registered | 08-05-2008 09:17:39
Now you got your case stated. The county established a county-wide complaint form due to your diligence, surely you filed a complaint against the building department, have they not yet answered the complaint? Good luck with the sheriff, he'll be the first to tell you he doesn't have any experts in building inspections or elder abuse that can look into your case to see if there was criminal activity. Sue the inspector if there were any unsafe conditions approved, should be simple and if there is a case there's an ambulance-chaser to take it!
Good Luck
lenny - SB840 kids.... Registered | 08-05-2008 18:15:58
back to SB840....!!!
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