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Holtz: What 'same-sex marriage' is really about PDF Print E-mail
Written by Howard Holtz   
Saturday, 14 June 2008

The subject of same-sex marriage is very misleading, because the principle of it really is not about religion, but rather about equal rights. Many churches have consistently used “good words” over the years to speak out for and against rights for homosexuals. Some fight every bill that comes up, on the basis that they somehow infringe upon religious rights. Other churches think that ANY two people should be allowed to join in a biblical marriage relationship.


I will leave my personal religious beliefs out of this, and simply state that religions that try to affect the “same-sex marriage” movement in either direction are violating their own desire for religious freedom by undertaking political ordeals, thus mixing state and religion.


Now, what "same-sex marriage" is really mostly about? The gay community got behind the "domestic partnership" union, in hopes of obtaining civil rights equal to those given heterosexuals in regards to taxes, insurance, job benefits, death benefits, etc. California is one state who got behind it quite well, however, many religious groups consistently fought total equality.


The efforts of these groups successfully stagnated the efforts of the domestic partnership movement for equality it became a farce. Also, they claim to be fighting any mixing of state and religion, and then they spend millions in lobbying federal and state politicians. These efforts are naturally doomed because the various religious groups cannot even agree upon what is right or wrong! (An interesting fact usually ignored is that a "domestic partnership" was not only for homosexuals, but for any combination of two people for whatever reason they chose to live together and share expenses as a heterosexually married couple does.)


The stumbling block in obtaining equal rights for gays is that we have two types of "marriage." One is the religious type, with every religion making its own rules regarding it. The other has unfortunately been the civil union, in which the government adopted the word "marriage" to describe it. This led to the state defining the term marriage based upon religious beliefs, and allowing various benefits and rights accordingly! Therefore, instead of a domestic partnership movement, they are now attempting to define the "civil marriage," not the "religious marriage," as a union of straights or gays, in order to receive equal rights. This eliminates having to pass special bills over the next umpteenth years to accomplish the goal of equality required by our constitution. So now the churches even tried to change the Constitution!


We have gay couples sharing expenses, and raising children properly.


We have gay single parents who are raising their children properly.


We have unmarried heterosexual couples sharing expenses, and raising their children properly.


Our constitution requires that the above should all receive equal tax benefits, insurance options, job benefits, death benefits, etc., and religious beliefs should not determine them. It is the religions that pushed the movement to the extreme limit of having to use “marriage” to obtain these benefits and rights.


This is not about religion!


Howard “Duke” Holtz lives in Lakeport.


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Kruk Ed Strait - Homosexuals are... Author | 06-16-2008 11:06:52
...men and women who sin, not a minority race of people as Howard would have everyone believe. This is the propaganda line from the militant homosexual activists. Child molesters, adulterers, kleptomaniacs, and any other sinful person is NOT A MINORITY RACE!!!!!! Sin is not good for the community. Homosexual sins, like any other, will destroy the community.
lovesbamkids - Confused IP:12.218.147.xxx | 06-16-2008 11:33:33
Responding to Mr. Holtz's articulate comments. Just as you wish to express your take on the gay "marriage" issue, I wish to do so as well. You are calling for religion to step out of the discussion. You are requesting the separation of church and state. I can understand that request, but your request is confused. By keeping it a "civil issue" and still using the word "marriage." If you want to keep it civil, why not call the union of two men or two women "civil unions." You use a word "marriage" which is the exact word religious people call the union of one man and one woman in the sacrament of Matrimony. Now matrimony is a religious word which has ALWAYS meant a union of a man with a woman. Men and women who have gone to the Justice of the Peace, or the Captain of a ship, etc. to become united, have had what are called "civil ceremonies" and those are acceptable legally. Men and women who go to a pastor or to a church seek to be united in Matrimony/marriage. What is wrong with a civil ceremony? Why must men who wish to unite with other men, and women who wish to unite with other women PUSH their morality on others? It is the express intent of using the SAME word for the meaning of uniting two men or two women (an ACT which is expressly FORBIDDEN by all of the oldest and acknowledged world religions) and thus the implying by the use of the word that this act is the same or equal to the act ordered by the One True God that OFFENDS the religious folks. Don't be so PUSHY. Two men and two women in a union will NEVER be the same as a man and woman in a marriage. Accept that fact! Please, if you want the so-called "civil rights" of a man and woman united in marriage, go for civil ceremonies, ask that civil unions receive the same rights as married couples. Quite pushing the confused request of "being married", on people who are trying to be polite but are deeply offended by lack of respect toward God, toward their religion, and toward themselves and what they consider very holy, Marriage.
Raphael - As a side issue Author | 06-20-2008 05:33:40
and just out of curiosity: if Christians represent the majority religion in this nation, and if all Christians believe marriage is a sacred, very holy union under God etc etc, why do 50% of these "very holy most sacred marriages under God" end in divorces? Could it be that they aren't so sacred or holy after all, or only for a while?
From what I have heard few traditional Indian people marry and pledge their union under the Chanupa, the Sacred Pipe, because they respect the Pipe so much that they would not make any promise of which they can't be absolutely sure in the presence of the Pipe.
How much do Christians respect their religion, their Bible and their God? How often do they take their Bible out when they have an issue, like this one, and then forget about it the rest of the time, or when thinking about it is not convenient and runs contrary to their self interest?
I know there are true Christians out there...they usually are not the self-righteous Bible-thumping kind, but the forgiving, compassionate, humble, generous, gentle kind.
But there is nothing more distasteful than the holier than thou attitude some people display, whether they are Muslims, Jews, Christians or atheists...it is unfortunate that religions, more than any other beliefs or ideals, seem to give some individuals who fail to understand them license to judge and condemn.
There are plenty of people who are not believers, yet they are so unselfish and generous, so open-hearted, compassionate and forgiving, so high-minded and idealistic, they are obviously so much more spiritual without even trying or wanting to be than the too many who hate and fear in the name of the Bible, the Torah or the Koran.
smurf - typical darrell... Registered | 06-16-2008 11:35:21
unable to distingush between criminal behavior like stealing or having sex with children and two consenting adults having a committed relationship with each other without causing harm to any other person(s). Pretty simple concept at work here darrell, not sure why you can't make this simple distinction between acts that harm others and acts that don't, the rest of us can figure it out.
Look at the bright side darrell, the churches are packed right now, mostly with good,clean-living , god-fearing Christian gays!
smurf IP:69.19.14.xxx | 06-16-2008 11:38:24
:evil:
1175Brush - Did lovesbamkids even read the Registered | 06-16-2008 12:38:05
Dear lovesbamkids,

Please read and absorb the article!! The first attempt WAS to call it "Domestic Partners". What difference is it to call it a "Civil Union"? They are both the same. IT IS THE STATE THAT DESTROYED THE WORD "MARRIAGE", by using it to unfairly give certain CIVIL rights only to heterosexual married people.

Taxes, insurance, death benefits, etc, have nothing to do with religion! As a devoted Christian, I am even speaking out against them because it is some of the religions of the world that are furthering such unfair civil rights now by trying to 'protect' the word "marriage". It is only a word!!!!

Since it failed to ask for the same rights for a "Domestic Partnership" or a "Civil Union", then the only alternative was to make it legal for a "Same-sex marriage". That way any two people united in a "CIVIL MARRIAGE" automatically obtain the same CIVIL rights. What other recourse do you have in mind? This does not in any way affect any religion from protecting their many many RELIGIOUS rules regarding who can marry, divorce, etc.

Religiously speaking, I am basically on your side. But AS A CHRISTIAN, I am obligated to further the case for "equal rights for all", as our constitution dictates.

"Give onto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and give onto God that which is God's"

Howard 'duke' Holtz
lamar - Are You Paying Attention to th Author | 06-16-2008 13:30:02
Dear Mr. Holtz,

Do you believe in the abuse of freedom? When I was growing up two sayings were popular - "If it feels good, do it...and "Different strokes for different folks."

Are you old enough to remember the beatniks, hippies and yippies? Where are they now? Well, I will tell you what many of them discovered. They discovered that the lifestyles of that liberal mindset - including the one you are suggesting - DO NOT WORK. There are right ways to live and there are wrong ways to live. You are advocating abnormal behavior as normal. That is not really beneficial to anyone. So, why do it? Just because you have the freedom to MAKE NOISE?

Our society is trouble because too many parents have abdicated being role models for their own children. In some cases, that is not really their desire, but the result of having to work two jobs just to keep their children fed. And, because the home is no longer where children learn moral values, the public school system seems to have been given that role.

And, what do we see there? Our public school system is educating children with books like "Heather Has Two Mommies" and pushing the perverted agenda of Planned Parenthood which advocates birth control and passing out of condoms to teaching children to abstain from sexual activity. To make matters even worse, you have the news media reporting teachers engaging in sex with their own students. What is the message when even the teachers exercise poor moral judgement?

Believe me, we don't need more craziness in this nation brought on by the '60's failed mentality. We need less. We need this nation to get its act together in the same paradygn as it was when it was initially founded. We need to be a God-fearing nation. If you do not know what that means - and based upon your article that seems to be the case - read a copy of the Declaration of Independence. When you know the truth - and you act upon it - you can actually enjoy it.
Donna Christopher - Competent consenting Author | 06-16-2008 14:29:04
adults should be allowed enter into what ever agreement they wish to - including marriage. This whole issue is a discretionary distraction - freak people out about 'the gays want to get married' - and voila no one pays attention to our real nasty problems that face us (most self inflicted in the last 7+ years). If God(dess?) didn't like GLBT, why'd (s)he make'em?
jmadison - God Fearing? Registered | 06-16-2008 14:46:15
Lamar,
I have read the declaration of independence, but please explain why I have to fear god? Will you please tell us which denomination of Christianity you belong to, so that we know who has all the answers.

I don't think homosexuality started in the 60s. Face it, it doesn't hurt us to give gays the same benefits that married heterosexuals get. I don't get why anyone would want to be gay either, but I do KNOW that I never became heterosexual because it was a moral decision. Give them a freakin break, THEY ARE GAY, and they aren't hurting us. Quit throwing your Bible around. Your God Fearingness really scares me. Now why don't you use your religious views to do something beneficial, like getting us out of Iraq. I believe Murder made the Top 10 on the commandment list, not your sexuality.
Kruk Ed Strait - It's contagious, stupid. Author | 06-16-2008 17:14:04
No, homosexual sins didn't start in the 60's but secularism did. Militant homosexual activism organized. Now, they're recruiting kids in CA schools. Most Bible Readers agree with the Pope that homosexual acts are sins. Left unchecked, sin spreads. It's contagious. When good men are silent, evil multiplies.
jmadison - Hey Stooopid Registered | 06-16-2008 18:31:03
Darrell,
If we had an online poll for who was the stooopidist, not only would you win by a landslide, the records would show that you voted for yourself.

Gays are no more recruiters than Bible thumpers are. Both groups want their ideas to become mainstream. Is it a sin for gays to want people to see them as normal? Is this "militant homosexual activism?" You're a fruit loop, yourself. God have mercy on you militant christiam activists.
1175Brush - NOBODY can be recruited to be Registered | 06-16-2008 18:14:00
Some people talk like at some time it was a choice to be gay! NO WAY! No more than any heterosexual I have met ever made the choice to be straight.

Heterosexuals statistically raise a greater percentage of gays, than gays do, and commit child abuse more. Gays cannot convert anyone - they don't want to.

Also, not all homosexuals give in to the sinful temptation to have sex with their own gender, anymore than all married straight guys give in to the innate desire to commit adultery at times. NOTE: the temptation is not a sin or we are all in trouble - only the sexual act is a sin, equated in the bible with gossips, thieves, etc. BUT, to willingly and knowingly promote discrimination against their rights IS A SIN.

Howard 'duke' Holtz
James - A lot of work . Registered | 06-16-2008 20:47:02
The attorneys are smiling from ear to ear. This government needs to get out of the business of who and who cann't marry. With all our problems we need to put this on our plate as well. Room on the dolman for me.
lamar - Let's Keep It Simple... Author | 06-17-2008 03:16:53
Marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman, period. It is not meant to be between two women or two men. It is not meant to be between a man and numerous women (poligamy).

If two gay people want to commit their lives to each other, they can call it a "union" - not a marriage. The Supreme Court of California made a mistake...AGAIN! And, I do believe the majority of state residents will vote to overturn their decision. This is no time for the tail to be wagging the dog.

It has been said that the "fear(respect) of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Such wisdom certainly appears to be in short supply in California's Judicial System.
jmadison - marriage vs. rights Registered | 06-17-2008 14:18:33
The original editorial above is about how gays have strived to obtain equal rights such as tax benefits, insurance options, death benefits, and job benefits. Most of the comments argue over weather or not gays can get married.

I think the majority of people are accepting enough to grant gays equal rights. Why should the government interpret their 'rights' with a religious mind set? Who the hell cares if they say they are 'married' or have a civil union. Just give them similar rights that married heteros get, whether you think they are sinners or not.
inov8tiv - right on jmadison IP:12.218.196.xxx | 06-17-2008 17:14:14
Darrell and others
Don't forget the Christian principles in Matthew 7:12.

"DO ONTO OTHERS THAT WHICH YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO ONTO YOU!"
inov8tiv - From Pelcan via a wise friend Registered | 06-17-2008 17:39:38
1.Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.
2.Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
3.Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
4.Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
5.Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.
6.Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.
7.Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
8.Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.
9.Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
10.Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.
Plus, Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs! DUH!
Kruk Ed Strait - Homosexual acts are sins.. Author | 06-17-2008 22:47:26
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garder, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.
Both listened to the serpent and ate the forbidden fruit and died. Who was right? Duuuuhh!
jmadison - Hey Crooked Registered | 06-18-2008 11:38:19
God may have said that they were sinners, but did he/she happend to say if these sinners should be taxed differently or have more problems getting health insurance than any other group of sinners?
1175Brush - To "inov8tiv" Registered | 06-18-2008 11:04:13
Thank you for the INOV8TIV slant of your reply - that took some thinking. Some people like lamar and georgia can't see beyond the trees or themselves, to see the forest or what has made America great.

Have a great life,
duke
1175Brush - Reply re lamar's ignorance Registered | 06-18-2008 13:06:54
Yes lamar, at 70 years old I am not only "old enough to remember the beatniks, hippies and yippies", but I lived in the San Francisco Area from 1959 to 2003. I have traveled more than half of the world, and the Haight-Ashbury area was the most peaceful and loving place that I can remember. People don't realize that it was dilapidated when they took over - property values skyrocketed overnight, and the area was cleaned up! It was "Live, and let live", which is obviously against your agenda, unless everyone subscribes to your limited set of house rules.

Guess what lamar, you are the type of parent most likely to raise homosexual children! How do I know that? Because I run a worldwide gay outreach ministry for my denomination, and study the stats constantly. Also guess what! It is one of the strictest bible-thumping and fastest growing religions in the world, showing far more Christian love than yourself! Forget the Declaration of Independence - you should go back and start over with the bible, and then you might get an inkling of what the Declaration of Independence is really based upon!

Lamar, you also said "the home is no longer where children learn moral values". GAY HOMES ARE!! I won't dare touch the topic of what the straight people in this group think about your statement, because you are accusing them of not teaching morals to their children! Maybe you are unable to do so, and therefore fear the outside world?

Lamar, you put down the old adage of "Different strokes for different folks"? Guess what, YES, and also, "Different beliefs for different folks", but the same freedoms and rights for ALL folks, that is what our country is about. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Howard 'duke' Holtz
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